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Hand Tool School #6: If I Build This, Would I be Profiting From Someone Else's Design?

I want to do the right thing, and I could use some designer feedback on this tricky issue

By Shannon Rogers - October 20, 2016

in Hand Tool School | Design Business

I need some help, dear readers. As I'm outlining projects I want to build in future semesters of The Hand Tool School, as well as future projects on my Renaissance Woodworker site, I have come across a design conundrum:

The iconic Conoid Chair by the Nakashima Furniture Company.

Technically everything I do both on my free RW site and my premium Hand Tool School site is, in some way, for profit. The RW site is really a marketing engine for the pay site, and through it I also receive income (albeit small) from affiliates and Google. So if I build a project based on a modern design where the originator is still alive, or at least a company maintains the design, is this unethical?

For example, I have been wanting to do some more contemporary stuff in The Hand Tool School. I would love to build a Conoid chair by George Nakashima or a Maloof style chair. I've also had readers write in and ask how I'd go about constructing the Yaffe Mays Sligo chair. Is this profiting from someone else's design if I build it and document it on my website? What if I build it as part of a paid semester at The Hand Tool School?

Using words like "inspired by" or "in the style of" gets into some hot water too as no matter what changes I make, the source will still be obvious. And in many cases, the original design is just right and why would I want to alter anything?

The Sligo chair by Yaffe Mays Co.

If I were just any old woodworker documenting one of his builds, I don't think this would be an issue. However, the Renaissance Woodworker persona and everything related to it has become its own business (and a full time job) so do I now cross a line by building a modern piece? I may be building a piece for my own use and enjoyment and not even trying to "teach" someone how to build the piece, but the fact that I broadcast it on one of my properties could be seen as profiting from the design. Of course legality is a major concern, but there is also the gray area of perception. While I may be legally safe, would I become a pariah in the woodworking community for being perceived as stealing someone else's work?

I want to do the right thing, but you can see how this gets a little hazy. What do you think? And where do you draw the line between a direct copy and a piece "inspired by" someone else's work? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

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This "Hand Tool School" series is provided courtesy of Shannon Rogers, a/k/a The Renaissance Woodworker. Rogers is founder of The Hand Tool School, which provides members with an online apprenticeship that teaches them how to use hand tools and to build furniture with traditional methods.

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Craig Thibodeau

8 years ago

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If you're having these thoughts before even starting the project then it's likely you already know the answer. Luckily for you all three of the designs you noted are from companies that still exist and can be contacted if you wanted to ask them for permission to do a class on building one of their pieces. Of course the answer may be no. And yes, it's obviously wrong to profit from someones work without getting their permission first.

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Keith Bradley

8 years ago

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Two Points to think about:
1) Copying the design and selling the furniture is bad.
Inspired by is the best way to go here. You shouldn't measure the original piece. A technique used in design school is to look at the pieces you like the style of and sketch from that. The next day redraw your design without looking at any images or your previous sketches. Although your created piece is definitely in the style of the original, it won't be identical and you will develop your own solutions.
2) There is nothing wrong with showing people how something is made.
If something is simple enough to be created at home, requiring skill and no proprietary molds/forms/tools, it's ok to try and build it yourself. Would you not build a simple MDF bookcase because IKEA makes one? If you aren't selling your creation, there's really no problem.

You ask about selling the lesson, that's where I'm not sure. I don't think your lesson should be step by step on how to build someone else's design, but a "How To" for each method used seems perfectly acceptable. This is how I would make this joint. This is how I would cut at this angle. Your final result can be inspired by a design you like, but other people could use those techniques to create their own pieces.

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Aaron Tuck

8 years ago

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I am an industrial designer working for a medium sized national furniture company in Australia. I have been asked by clients to copy other people's pieces and what I always say is "why do you like this piece? What is it about the chair/table that appeals to you?" After determining this, we can design something inspired by, say the angular rectilinear forms of the Yaffe Mays Sligo. The new design could capture some of the essence of the original while keeping your conscience clean and giving the students something that won't be criticized as a rip off in their portfolio.

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Laura Mays

6 years ago

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I am the designer and maker of the Sligo chair, one of the chairs discussed above. I myself am a teacher (at The Krenov School in northern California) and I very much understand the usefulness of learning through imitation, even through downright copying. Many of my students copy existing work as a means to learning. However, two points: 1) I urge the students in this situation to make every effort to at least ask the designer or manufacturer for permission, pointing out that they are making the copy for the purposes of education; and 2) that they don't profit in a material sense from the copy. The exercise was to learn, not to sell. If Renaissance Woodworker wishes to use the Sligo chair for teaching purposes, it would be polite, to say the least, to ask me. If they ask, I would say yes and be flattered. If they don't ask, I would be angry and consider it unethical.

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Maureen Carroll

8 years ago

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I was not previously familiar with the original Irish chair type called the Sligo, but after googling images of the original, and looking at the Yaffe Mays Co. version, I was really impressed. Yaffe Mays does an absolutely beautiful interpretation of the chair type, reinventing it in a modern language. Let there be no doubt: copying it and publishing a "how to" for making it is not the sincerest form of flattery - it's really shady, and would reflect very poorly on you. You can contact Yaffe Mays and see if they would give you permission to do it, OR, you could look at the original Sligo chair and do your own unique reinterpretation, purposely striving to differentiate from the Yaffe Mays version. I'm not talking about simply copying it without "measuring" it as someone suggested, I'm talking about using different lines, proportions, support methods, etc. That would be the best was to foster conversation, advance the woodworking profession, and take the high road while shedding light on a beautiful piece you found, without copying it.

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Christian van der Linden

8 years ago

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While there may be some gray area, the right to use portions of copyrighted materials without permission for purposes of education, commentary, or parody is normally considered "fair use".

You might be in the clear as your purposes for education. You aren't selling reproductions of the intellectual property.

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- Christian van der Linden
  
  Christian van der Linden
  
  8 years ago
  
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  I would still reach out to the owners of the designs as a courtesy. Who knows, they could be enthusiastic about the marketing opportunity.
  
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Matt Herrmann

8 years ago

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Maybe the safer bet would be to say "in <X> style" in the same way you would make a Missionary chest of drawers, Shaker coat rack, or an Arts and Crafts writing desk. No copyright infringement there, and people will draw whatever conclusions about your inspirations they want.

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Sara Falcon

8 years ago

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If your site is to help people learn... Learning how to create a new design "in the style of" could be a great lesson to teach. If you don't feel comfortable giving advice on this to your subscribers, maybe partner with another designer who can give meaningful tips or do s case study on the topic. Could be really interesting for you as well.

SJ

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Jonas Eriksson

8 years ago

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Did you ask Yaffe Mays for permission to use their picture of the chair? If no then you violated the copy rights - if you/core77 and Yaffe Mays is in the same country or share the same law agreed between the different countries.

Maybe you could picture yourself how would you react if someone copied your entire homepage, without asking you. You could be fine with it on a hobby level but what if the copied homepage make money and outshine yours?

My point is that if you don't have permission then it will probably be troublesome in the future. You might be protected by country borders and internet anonymity for now but if it start to involve big money or hurt a large company, then its a matter of time when they come and ask for compensation.

If you respect the designers work you should also respect their wish. They might say no if you ask them but you could always try to explain to them the PR-value to be mentioned on a blog as Core77 or your own for example. I didn't know of Yaffe Mays before, now I do thanks to you and Core77.

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Noodle Time

8 years ago

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gray area indeed... very similar to music artists.

if you design a building, and i decide to take a picture, or paint a picture of it, and sell those pictures, are you entitled to some of the profit?

in my mind, in the subset of hand workings, it is hard to 'copy' even when you are 'copying'. meaning, each piece could be considered a unique piece of art, different woodgrain/color, etc. I think you have to look at it from a 'is it different enough' in design/quality, that the purchaser would be buying it on those different traits, versus a same for same argument?

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Sean Thackston

8 years ago

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I don't think it's so bad Shannon. I don't know whether or not any of this would be a bad move legally speaking, but as far as perception goes it doesn't seem all that wrong.

Anyone who is taking your class to build a piece of furniture is obviously willing to put forth the effort to make a go of it with or without your guidance. It's such a small subset of people who have the will and the means to make a copy, so I don't think you're stealing from the original designer's market. If anything, you're building recognition of a product that otherwise may go unnoticed.

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