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  Les Mandelbaum- co-founder of umbra

  13 years ago

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  Have to jump in with a bit of history.A few years ago got into a beef with Kozoil over a very close to copy they made to our SWAY can by Karim Rashid. The issue is more about integrity and respect for designers and manufactuers who aspire to do orignal work,

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  Luke

  13 years ago

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  If these were two design students in a studio class together tasked with the same assignment, the similarity would be enough to make me raise an eyebrow.
  
  Given these are two different designers releasing products in different years, I'd say it's completely fair. Some ideas happen to make just enough sense to crop up independently from time to time. In the end, even the most original ideas don't come out of a vacuum. The flow of ideas is fundamental to culture itself.

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  zagato

  13 years ago

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  not a copy, i deeply dislike the koziol brand but this is fair play

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  Ronin_id

  13 years ago

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  True it is another debate a much larger one, i'm all for beautiful products that's not what my point was. It's about balancing the time and effort we spend on pretty thing's with that of making truly useful objects that improve our lives in more ways than just our aesthetic desires. Look at any well known designer out there (i.e Philippe Stark, Newson, etc.) and you will find that the truly useful and human centered designs that solve real issues are far and few between when compared to the pretty objects that are mostly re-designs of common objects. don't get me wrong I respect many of the very well known designers out there they are all great and talented at what they do, especially marketing themselves. We as designers have a great responsibility to improve the world around us in more ways than just making another beautiful object, sure we got to make ends meat but surly the percentages could be more balanced. True, dumb is not the right word, because a new salad bowl makes these companies money and there's nothing wrong with that. It has nothing to do with communism, lol, it has to do with caring as much for others as we do ourselves, may sound sappy but I can't think of any reason why that's a bad idea. Bottom line is balance design efforts both for those that truly need it as well as for those who merely desire it.

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  Stefano D.

  13 years ago

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  Regardless of personal criticism of the design of these specific salad bowls, I`m quite certain that this is a case of "coincidental fair play". Sometimes designers think alike. No mystery there.
  
  Whether the world needs another salad bowl... well, that`s an entirely different debate. Are there too many objects being re-designed? Perhaps. However, I don`t think that Umbra or Koziol would consider a salad bowl to be a "dumb" product to re-design. It is also unlikely that Umbra or Koziol approached their respective designers and demanded that they design the product that will "save the world".

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  Adam

  13 years ago

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  @Ronin
  The version with the integrated forks makes it much easier to store the forks. Instead of filling up space in a drawer, they can sit in the bowl, which can then be stacked with other bowls in a cabinet. That's definitely a nice feature.
  
  Anyway, what's wrong with just looking nice? What's wrong with choice? People need salad bowls, so why not make a new, nice-looking one? The idea that people should stop designing salad bowls because we already have them is pretty odd (and a bit communist). Should we stop designing cars? Computer mice? Everything that isn't an entirely new product? That would get a bit boring.

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  dann

  13 years ago

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  It's totally fair play. The designs are so completely different in look, materials, size, use and even the feelings they invoke. The fact that they share a mere concept of interwoven parts is irrelevant. They are also both concave.
  In my opinion, Young's idea to have two forks connect to create a spoon really is more elegant and innovate than simply imbedding forks into the form of the bowl.
  And Ronin, you completely missed the intent of the discussion. Designers design for the same reason fish swim. It's what drives them. We should be beyond that question by now, especially considering this is a design website.

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  Ronin_id

  13 years ago

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  Although the design is witty and it's price is at least affordable, unlike many products designed by the so called known designers, why do we need another salad bowl. I understand that people will always crave new objects but seriously why do so many of these known designers pick the dumbest objects to re-design instead of putting there design power into problems that truly need solving. I love a beautiful objects and design as much as the next person but at minimum make them useful or improve on there use, neither of these designs really do much but self serve the designers need to create a nice looking object for which they can market there name.

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  Shaun Smith

  13 years ago

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  Absolute fair play. If it wasn't, we'd all be driving a black box with four wheels.

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  morgan

  13 years ago

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  hmmm... more of an evolution than anything else. There's no integration into the bowl with the ensalada utensils. It's clever, but I don't think it really adds anything to the experience. I'm sure the ensalada is a bit more ergonomic, or at least you won't be elbowing your tablemates in the face when you're filling your bowl..
  
  certainly more elegant.

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